SUBJECTS: VOICE REFEREDNUM; ULURU STATEMENT FROM THE HEART.
NATALIE BARR: Support for an indigenous Voice to Parliament is slipping. It's currently sitting below 50 per cent in every State. New analysis of a recent Newspoll shows the yes vote sits at 43 per cent nationally, while the no vote is at 56 per cent. The Yes campaign only leads in two States, New South Wales and South Australia. It's tied with the no vote in Victoria, and it trails in Western Australia, Queensland and Tasmania.
Let's bring in Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning. Tanya.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Good morning.
BARNABY JOYCE: Morning.
BARR: Based on these current attitudes, a vote on a Voice to Parliament would fail to meet the requirements of a referendum, are you concerned?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I'm absolutely determined that we've got to get out there and combat the scare campaign and explain to people that this is about two really simple things. It's about changing our constitution to acknowledge that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have been here a long time. And it's also about setting up a committee that would give advice to the Parliament.
At the moment we know we've got gaps in life expectancy and health outcomes, employment, education. What the no campaign are saying is that we should just keep doing what we're doing, there should just be more of the same. And of course I don't agree with that.
BARR: Barnaby, why do you think it's failing so badly?
JOYCE: Well it's failing so badly because of what it is, not because of the polling. That it's based on race, so it differentiates Australia on race which is I think anathema in 2023.
It is in the constitution, there's no doubt about it, so it's entitled to constitutional law which means its reference to the executive can be challenged in the High Court or on the process of consultation. That's why it's quite clear and it says, "Subject to the constitution". Once it's in the constitution you can't get rid of it, it's there forever. It's not elected. It's not elected by the Australian people. It's a selected body.
So this runs at odds with democracy. And of course ultimately it has the capacity to be influenced or held by one side of the political fence or the other.
No one's described to us exactly, they say it's going to make certain issues, health, education, better, but they haven't described exactly how it's going to do that. Why can't we do that now? Why do we need it to go into the constitution? You know, it's over reach. And because it's over reach that's why people, you know, they don't want to but say, "Look, I want to do something but this is over reach so I can't support it".
BARR: Tanya, in the Uluru Statement of the Heart which the Prime Minister agreed on the first night he was elected that he would implement, they talk about a treaty, and they talk about financial settlement, is that the case? Because when you create a void it is filled by information. That is what the Opposition is doing in this case. They're saying, "We don't have the information" and they're the ones filling it and at this stage they're winning here.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, they're winning because they're using the same old scare campaign that they've used every time there's been a change. So during the national apology when Peter Dutton walked out he said Australia would be up for billions of dollars of compensation after the apology. Never happened. After the Mabo and Wik decisions, native title, billions of dollars compensation, it never happened.
BARR: But isn't it mentioned in the Uluru Statement of the Heart, Tanya? It's actually written in there, isn't it? So will there be a financial settlement as part of a percentage of GDP? That's actually talked about, isn't it? And a treaty?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Nat, we're not determining any of that right now, we're determining one simple question: Do we change our constitution to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, and do we set up a committee that would give advice?
I don't understand why Barnaby's so threatened about this. His former colleague Andrew Gee left the National Party because of this scare campaign. He pointed out that the Coalition are going to be reconciliation wreckers and that's what's happening here. They're muddying the water with every sort of other, you know, "This might happen. That might happen". Two simple questions. Do we change the constitution to include Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people? Do we set up a committee that can give advice? It has no power of veto ‑‑
JOYCE: That's not true. That is not true.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: No power of veto. It is true. Read the question.
JOYCE: No, I do, and I also listen to the ‑‑
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And can I say to your viewers, Nat ‑‑
JOYCE: ‑‑ I listen to the Prime Minister of Australia as well.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Spend half an hour, Google Yes 23.
JOYCE: Oh, this is not true. The Prime Minister of Australia has said he will deliver the Uluru Statement of the Heart in full, and that includes a treaty. That includes a treaty. You've got to either believe the Prime Minister or not. And if you want to clear up ‑‑
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That's not what we're voting on.
JOYCE: ‑‑ our scare campaigns then one of the things you should do is deliver the legislation for The Voice for the examination by the Australian people prior to them walking into the constitutional church to marry it forever, because that's what's going to happen. You're going to show it to us on the way out. We want to see it on the way in, not on the way out.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: The legislation will be determined by the Parliament. You'll be able to vote, Barnaby. You'll be part of forming it.
JOYCE: Oh, no, yeah, but you dominate the Parliament.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You'll be part of designing it.
JOYCE: It's determined by the Labor Party and the Greens, not us. Everybody knows that. You're the Government.
BARR: And that's what people are saying, they want to see it before they vote on it. It seems to be the consensus, and in a State like Victoria which is Labor ‑‑
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Which is not the consensus, Nat.
BARR: The figures are here, you know, obviously the Newspoll could be wrong but in a State like Victoria it's tied, the voting is now tied in a Labor State like Victoria, so there's something going wrong, isn't there?
JOYCE: Obviously.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we're going to keep campaigning.
BARR: Okay. Thank you very much. You've both had your say this morning, we'll see you next week.
JOYCE: Thank you.
BARR: Here's Matt.
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