HAMISH MACDONALD, HOST: This is RN Breakfast. Since coming to power, the Albanese government has pledged to streamline and speed up decision-making in the Environmental portfolio. Last year's budget detailed increased spending to clear backlogs and issue faster environmental approvals. 

This morning, the Environment Minister is claiming that clean energy projects are being approved at twice the rate of previous years. Tanya Plibersek is the Environment Minister. Good morning, welcome back to Breakfast.

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Good morning, Hamish. How are you?

MACDONALD: Very well, thank you. I hope you've had a good Easter. What are you doing that is different? What's the evidence that you're approving at twice the rate of previous years?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we're getting rid of the brown tape, the negativity, the delay, the denial that the previous government applied when they were looking at renewable energy projects, and the evidence that we've more than doubled. We've approved eleven renewable energy projects in the ten months since coming to Government. And the comparison period under the previous government was five. So, we've more than doubled them. And that's because we've put more resources into the Department of Environment to speed up the approvals. And it's because we've created an environment of certainty. We've got more businesses wanting to invest in renewable energy projects because they know we've got a target of 82 per cent renewable energy in our grid by 2030.

MACDONALD: And what scale are these projects that you are approving? Where are they?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: They vary. There's a few small ones, there's a few big ones, and we've got a bunch of them. I got about 95 projects ahead of me, as well, that will be projects of various size. So, we've got, for example, a 90-megawatt Port Hedland solar project in Western Australia. We've got transmission lines in the EnergyConnect Eastern Section project in New South Wales, which means we can get the energy into people's homes and businesses. We've got a 445 megawatt solar farm in Queensland, the Goyder South Wind Farms in South Australia. I mean, there's a bunch of quite different projects right across Australia. We've also got, of course, the six offshore renewable energy zones where we're going to see offshore wind farms fast-tracked. This is all to help us reach that 82 per cent renewable energy by 2030 target.

MACDONALD: At the same time, Minister, though, you have been criticised for approving 116 coal seam gas wells in Queensland as part of Santos's Surat Basin project. Is it fair to observe that the quantum of projects or the amount is still dwarfed by fossil fuel?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: No, not really. That is a 1.3 per cent increase in size on a project that's been there for eight years. It's an eight-year-old project that's been increased in size by 1.3 per cent. So I think it's a bit disingenuous of critics to be focussing on one project increasing in size by 1.3 per cent, and ignoring the fact that we've had a massive increase in businesses wanting to invest in renewables in Australia in a government that is responding by efficiently making those approvals so we can see more renewable energy into our homes and businesses. This is a massive change in our economy. We're decarbonizing our economy by getting cheaper, cleaner, renewable energy into people's homes and businesses.

MACDONALD: Are you saying it is now easier in Australia to get an approval for an energy project that is, if you like green compared with a fossil fuel-based energy approval?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, so far we've seen, as I said, eleven renewable projects in ten months. We haven't seen a coal approval in that time. We've seen some gas approvals, like this 1.3 per cent increase in the Surat Basin. So, I think that tells you the story of how the economy is changing. Businesses know that there is demand from the public for more renewable energy and they know that there is support because the government has a clear target to get 82 per cent renewables into our grid by 2030. So, there's a certainty that was really lacking under the previous government.

MACDONALD: I do need to ask you about the Safeguard Mechanism. The Greens say that the overall emissions cap in the Safeguard Mechanism makes it impossible for some fossil fuel projects to get up, particularly large-scale LNG projects. Is that your view? Are they right?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I think it's really for Chris Bowen to be talking about the Safeguard Mechanism as the Energy Minister, but we believe we've got a sensible compromise now where we'll see certainty for our energy market and we'll see predictability for investors. We want to see the decarbonizing of our economy, we want to see more renewables in the grid.

MACDONALD: But you'll understand, Minister, that so many Australians are incredibly passionate about these issues, but also there's enormous complexity around the way these policies are implemented. So, I'm just trying to help our audience understand what the implications of the changes to the Safeguard Mechanism are and whether new fossil fuel-based projects will still get up, but be able to offset using credits for an entire project.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we've said, Hamish, that there will be coal and gas in Australia for the foreseeable future. It's going to be part of our energy mix. What we're trying to do is bring more renewables online faster so that we can get to that 82 per cent renewable energy target by 2030. 
But that's not the only thing we're doing. We've signed the Methane Pledge. We know that methane is a dangerous greenhouse gas. We've, in my own portfolio, strengthened protections for the ozone layer. We've got our Electric Vehicle Strategy, we are fast tracking offshore wind as well. And there's a range of things that we are doing together across the government to make sure that we are meeting our potential as a renewable energy superpower. We know that Australia can be a renewable energy superpower. And the fast approvals of renewables projects, landing the Safeguard Mechanism, making sure that we've got offshore wind that we can bring online quickly, an Electric Vehicle Strategy, all of these things work together to reduce our carbon emissions as a nation.

MACDONALD: Tanya Plibersek, you have indicated that you would support water buybacks going forward. Why are you taking that position? You're aware of how incredibly controversial this policy is in regional communities.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, from the time that I took on the Water portfolio, Hamish, I said that it was likely that water buybacks would have to be part of meeting the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. We know that over the last nine years, very little was done towards meeting the objectives of the plan. In fact, well over 80 per cent of the water that's been recovered across the Murray-Darling Basin towards the objectives in the Murray-Darling Basin Plan was recovered under Labor governments, more than 80 per cent. So, in the last nine years, it's been about 16 per cent of the water that's been recovered has been recovered in the last nine years. Basically, the Nationals had a stop work on water recovery. They tied up the Murray-Darling Basin plan with brown tape. We are so far from meeting the objectives in the 450 gigalitres of additional environmental water that was a condition of South Australia joining the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, that they recovered about two gigalitres of that.

MACDONALD: Did you accept -

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So we are meeting objectives of the plan. We need to do everything. We need to do water recovery -

MACDONALD: Did you accept that these buybacks can destroy whole communities?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I accept that communities have done, across the Murray-Darling Basin, have done a lot of heavy lifting in past years, and we're going to take a very sensible and methodical approach towards water buybacks.

And can I remind you, Hamish, you would know this better than most, that the Nationals aren't completely opposed to water buybacks. When Barnaby Joyce was the Water Minister, he bought $80 million of water from a company established by Angus Taylor and registered in the Cayman Islands. In fact, a fifth of all of the water buybacks they did was bought from this one company. So they're not against all water buybacks, they're against water buybacks when it suits them. This is going to be part of our solution, as will efficiency projects, as will infrastructure projects. And why are we doing it? Just a few weeks ago, we saw fish kills in Menindee. Again. Four years ago, we had massive fish kills in Menindee. If we don't have water available to us for environmental reasons, we will continue to see the destruction.

MACDONALD: I do need to get out of this interview, Minister, are you saying that the Menindee fish kill is in part due to the mismanagement of the Murray-Darling Basin?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: The most recent one looks to be due to the fact there was low oxygen because of flooding. But unless we have environmental water available to us in the dry times, at times like this, we are limited in how we can protect our natural environment. This is a million square kilometres with 2.3 million people living in it. We need to have water for the environment so that we cannot just protect the environment, but also protect the health and wellbeing of the communities that rely on the river system. We had communities that had no water in them for 400 days last time it was dry. And we know in Australia, just as it's wet today, it'll be dry again in the future.

MACDONALD: I need to leave it there. Thank you very much for your time, Tanya Plibersek.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It's a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks, Hamish.