E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SUNRISE
MONDAY, 18 May 2026
Topics: Housing; Budget.
NATALIE BARR: For their take, let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you. Tanya, 60 per cent of people say your housing message is a step in the wrong direction or will make no difference. Did you expect the rejection to be this bad?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Well, I think that's a pretty selective reading of the polls, Nat. There's a lot of people who are saying that they're in favour of the changes we're making and there's a big group in the middle who don't yet understand what's been decided, who we've got to talk to, we've got to explain what we're doing. And I think the most important thing to start with is if you're already negatively gearing, you can keep doing it. No change –
BARR: Until next July.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: If you want to negatively gear in the future, if you want to negatively gear in the future, what you'll do is buy a new property. And the reason that we did that is because we want to add to housing stock in this country. We want people to be buying new places because we're increasing the pool of available housing. What we don't want are people my age being subsidised to go out and buy their 5th or 10th established home when young first home buyers can't get into the market.
BARR: Is it a problem, though--
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So, doing lot right across--
BARR: --that you've had the two. Well, more than the two most senior politicians in this country try to explain it for a week and as you say, a lot of people in the middle don't understand it yet.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I think that's pretty normal, I think it's pretty natural. People take a little while. They take a little while to listen to everything that they're hearing on TV, in the newspapers, from our leaders and they'll make their mind up over time. But most people stop me in the street to talk about housing, people my age and older are worried that their kids and grandkids will never be able to afford a home of their own. So, we're doing a lot with like 5 per cent deposits, 2,500 people in Barnaby's electorate have got into a home of their own because of our 5 per cent deposit policy. Just today we've announced more than 50,000 extra blocks in Queensland. We're working with the Queensland government to bring that housing supply on. But while ever the tax system was working against young Australians, stopping them getting into a home of their own, well, I think it's important that we change that to make it easier for the next generation and the next generation to get into the housing market.
BARR: Yeah, we're all worried about our kids not being able to afford a house. I think the whole point of this is, is this going to make it any easier? People, people have really voted for Angus Taylor in this poll. Anthony Albanese in February was Preferred Prime Minister 38 to 22. Now it's completely swung. It's done a 360. Angus Taylor's 33 to 30. That is a pretty clear verdict on the Budget. They've decided that much. That must be a shock this morning for your government.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, well, it's one poll and we'll keep doing our job of reminding people why we've made this decision. We've made this decision because we want kids today and the next generation and the next generation to have what we have, a home of our own, a roof over their heads for their family. And the way the housing market was going, that was becoming less and less a likelihood, less possible for the next generation and the next generation. I want my three kids to have what I had and what my parents had--
BARR: We all do. We all want that, Tanya.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: A roof over their head, that they can raise a family.
BARR: Everyone wants that.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Then we've got to make changes, Nat. Well, Nat.
BARR: But the changes have got to be right now.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You have to admit it's become less likely today. It's become less likely today than it was just a few years ago because cashed up investors were competing with young first home buyers in the housing market. What we're saying to those people now is if you want to invest, invest in new housing, bring more housing stock into the pool of available housing, they'll still be able to negatively gear. They'll have to negatively gear new properties. So, we're adding to housing stock. That's a pretty fair compromise.
BARR: And if it works, because we've got a real estate agent on coming up and he says that all the old people are going to keep their assets and they're not going to sell. So, it's just got to work. You know, it'd be great if it works. Barnaby. The same poll has declared Pauline Hanson is now the most likeable politician in this country. Can One Nation actually convert that into votes because you have one lower house seat?
BARNABY JOYCE: Well, we have and we saw in that vote that we got a very, we were by far and away, the Labor Party didn't turn up and we would double the rest of the Coalition to vote. Now, the reason that the Prime Minister of Australia, the Prime Minister of Australia and the Treasurer are finding it hard to explain what's going on is because they lied. See, they lied before the election. They said they weren't going to change things but they lied. And now people have woken up not just houses but small businesses with Mr. Albanese as their 40 per cent per cent shareholder in the equity of their business and they're not happy with that. They're very unhappy with that. And then we were told that it wouldn't go into death duties and we find in discretionary trust in the future it will. See there's another lie. There's a lot of lies going on and of course no one's going to believe them when they explain it because they believe that they're liars and see people don't believe liars and you know and Tanya had the talking points last week but she knew the answers. And we sort of got went on this magical mystery tour with Tanya where she knew the answers but she wouldn't tell us. She wouldn't even say I know the answers but I won't tell you. So, what we have is socialism at play where basically they end up with your place and the people who are renting are actually their lives are going to be made worse. See, they rent not because they can afford a house, they rent because they can't afford and therefore that rental stock for people to get their returns and [inaudible]-
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And we're trying to help them get into the market and you're trying to stop them.
JOYCE: They're going to ask for more money on their rent, so they're going to be pushed out of their house and onto the street and into a car. So, next time you're walking down the street in your suburb--
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That’s not really how it works Barnaby.
JOYCE: Explain how you lied and how now people who rent are going to get a worse deal and then you'll find out why your polling has gone down.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We're going to give them a chance of a home of their own that you want to deny them.
JOYCE: You're not. You're lying [inaudible].
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We're going to give them a chance to have a home of their own. Two and a half thousand in your electorate, Barnaby, who've got into a first home because of 5 per cent deposits.
JOYCE: [inaudible] Now you're telling the truth. Everybody's going to get better.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well there's two and a half thousand people in your electorate that are in a home of their own. There's two and a half thousand people help that you would not have helped because you wouldn't have helped with 5 per cent deposits.
JOYCE: [inaudible] No one believes you Tanya.
BARR: Let's go, let's get on to the onto the so-called death tax because I just want to clear this up, Tanya. Anthony Albanese is being accused of introducing a death tax in disguise. Stay with us here. This is a certain type of family trust. It is used to distribute a person's money after they die. The PM has now admitted that after 2028, it will be taxed at a higher rate. Tanya, it does sound a lot like a death tax. Can you clear this up for us?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, testamentary trusts are trusts that you set up to distribute money to your kids after you've died. You can either distribute that money in set shares to your children, or you can have someone else deciding that this kid gets more this year, this kid gets less this year. What we're saying is if the share is fixed, no change, that's fine. If you're able to shift the money around, you might be doing that to minimise tax. So, that's going to have the minimum 30 per cent tax attached to it. But Nat, can I say, getting into the detail of this--
JOYCE: There you go. 30 per cent tax.
BARR: Okay, just, just on that, Tanya, if you have a testamentary trust set up--
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And Barnaby, most people, don't do this because --
BARR: A lot of people do this for all sorts of reasons. They might have a disabled child, they may have, you know, issues with marriage, you know, lots of kids getting married. They want the money to go where they want it to go. If you have a testamentary trust set up, will it be taxed more after July next year?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, like I said, there's more than one type of testamentary trust, Nat. There's the discretionary ones and the fixed ones. But can I say, the reason that we do this--
BARR: So, if it's a discretionary one, you'll be taxed more next July?
JOYCE: Yes.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: 30 per cent on the discretionary ones.
BARR: From next July. So you will be?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: This is the reason we're doing it.
BARR: Isn't that a death tax, Tanya?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: No, it's not. Because you can still have a fixed testamentary trust if you want to.
BARR: So, you have to go to a lawyer and change it all.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And the reason we're doing this is because, Nat. The reason we're doing this is because people who work for a living have to pay their tax. It comes out of their wages every single week.
JOYCE: [inaudible]
BARR: So, people with a trust don't work for a living?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: People who work for a living should not be paid--
JOYCE: [inaudible] So, they're going to get taxed on that.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: People who work for a living should get taxed, people who work for a living should not get taxed more on their wages than people who are living on their assets.
JOYCE: [inaudible]
BARR: People who work for a living, buy a house, put it in a trust for their disabled child. They should be taxed more?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We think that the balance between the taxes that people who work for a living are paying and the taxes that people are paying on their assets, their investments, their shares--
JOYCE: You buy assets after tax revenue [inaudible].
BARR: Okay, okay, look, I think, I think we've got to the bottom of it, but I think that that does clear it up because a lot of people will have these or they may in the future or they may, it's just one of the issues in the Budget.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, actually a lot of people don't have them because most people are being taxed on their wages.
JOYCE: It's socialist. They've already paid tax, Tanya. They buy their assets because they don't pin the money up against the wall. They say rather than go on a trip, I'm going to buy this assets to make my kids happier after I die. But you say, no, we can't do that. You've got to give it to Uncle Jim.
BARR: Okay, okay, look, it affects about 11, 12, 13,000 people in the country, but it is interesting for a lot of people. We just want to cover that today. Thank you. Oh, sorry. We've got. Sorry out there in the rain, Tanya. Thank you very much. We'll see you next week. Got a few different topics covered today.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That's alright. Good to talk to you.
ENDS
