THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS AUSTRALIA
THURSDAY, 31 JULY 2025
Topics: Middle East conflict.
LAURA JAYES: Joining me live now is the Social Services Minister, Tanya Plibersek. Tanya, thanks so much for your time. There's obviously growing pressure on Israel, and I note among the concerns around antisemitism, obviously here in Australia there is growing concern about the state of Gaza and the humanitarian crisis there. What do you think the Australian people expect of this Government?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Well, I absolutely agree, Laura, that there is growing concern about antisemitism in Australia, and it's absolutely vital that we address that, and of course Australians would expect us to make sure that Australia is safe for every Australian, and that they feel safe here too. But most Australians looking at the humanitarian crisis in Gaza with people starving to death, children starving to death, would also expect us to play a role internationally in urging peace.
Australia has always said that we support a two-state solution. John Howard years ago said that there wouldn't be peace in the Middle East until there was a two-state solution. It's been Australia's consistent position. What's changed is we're now saying that the recognition of a Palestinian State doesn't have to come at the end of a peace process, that a Palestinian State can be recognised on some conditions. Now, of course, immediately that requires the release of the hostages that Hamas still holds. We condemn Hamas for its actions on 8 October, but also for its actions subsequently, and there is no future Hamas in a future Palestinian State. But when we look at the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, the international community is saying it cannot continue, it cannot be that food, and basic medical supplies continue to be denied to the people of Gaza. Every innocent life matters, the innocent lives that Hamas stole, they matter, but the civilians who are starving to death, the civilians who are starving to death who are the victims of bombing now, those lives matter too. Those lives matter too.
JAYES: So, what's the solution here, because, you know, we've seen Canada, France, the UK recognise or say they will recognise Palestine, or at least threaten to, but then the next question comes, but who do you negotiate with? Is there a reward for Hamas? Now looking at the state of Gaza, I'm not sure Hamas is actually in control or what the state of their, you know, authority looks like, but certainly, you know, Gaza looks like a carpark, and we've seen the pictures out of there when it comes to famine. We've also heard Benjamin Netanyahu also kind of dismiss this idea that the Palestinian authority could be the ones to take over as well. So where does that leave us practically? I mean it's really great to recognise the State of Palestine if you think it's going to – well, if the world thinks it's going to make a legitimate change, but if Israel doesn't recognise anybody or doesn't seem to put their faith in any kind of Palestinian authority governing the Gaza Strip, where does that leave us?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, of course there has to be a willingness from both sides to enter into peace negotiations, and that's not going to happen without the support of third countries in the region, and also the United States. We know that this is a complicated negotiating proposition to bring peace to a region that has been troubled for such a long period of time. It doesn't mean that we turn our backs on those negotiations. The international community is absolutely clear, we need to redouble our efforts to return the hostages, to engage in ceasefire, to allow humanitarian access, and to negotiate on a permanent peace.
We're very clear, the countries that are saying that they'll recognise a Palestinian State are very clear that there is no role for Hamas in that Palestinian State. It's not an easy path, Laura, if it was an easy path we would have achieved peace before now. What we can't do is turn our backs as an international community on children starving to death. This is a humanitarian crisis that has been inflicted on the people of Gaza, many of them, you know, children starving to death. It is not okay for us as an international community to say, you know, we'll let them sort it out. We need to all play a role.
The reason Australia has not said immediately that we will recognise the Palestinian State at the UN in September is because we do believe that this has to come with conditions, it has to – it will require some delicate negotiation about next steps. We understand that. It's not an easy path, but we need to take the next step along the path that will bring us to a lasting peace.
JAYES: We had Mike Kelly tell Pete this morning as well, and he's of course part of the Friends of Israel Group, that he doesn't believe there's a famine, he says the body that's in charge of declaring that hasn't declared it. He also, when Pete pointed out how many children had been killed, he also pointed out 50,000 had been born as well. Does any of that help you sleep at night?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I think one of the difficulties in the conflict is that around 200 Palestinian journalists have been killed in the conflict and many international journalists have been prevented from going into Gaza.
So, I understand why people say that some of the facts on the ground are unclear. But we have enough evidence, and the international agencies of the UN have been very clear that there is a famine, there is a humanitarian crisis. I mean you only need to see the footage that has been released to see the state of the buildings, the infrastructure on the ground to see that Gaza is in crisis, and yes, Hamas bears a great deal of the responsibility for that, but as an international community, when we see the civilian death toll as high as it is, it is important as an international community that we say it must stop. Food and humanitarian relief must be allowed to enter.
Prior to the conflict there were – or at the beginning of the conflict, there were hundreds of trucks every day going into Gaza taking supplies. That has virtually ceased. There's some restoration of that now, we're seeing air drops; air drops are not a particularly efficient way of getting humanitarian aid into Gaza, it's a small‑scale relief in a very indirect sort of uncontrolled way. We need to see the trucks start again taking food and medicines, particularly, particularly for children into the Strip.
JAYES: We've seen aid, you know, that is, you know, behind barbed wire fence in Gaza, we've seen like mountains of it, actually. Now Israel say, "it's the UN" and also says, "well, Hamas isn't, you know, is stealing a lot of the aid". The UN says, "Well, Israel runs the security and says what we can and can't do and therefore it's not being distributed." Do you know what the truth is or the answer to that question is?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I'd say a couple of things. We've seen civilians shot when trying to access aid. It's no surprise that that very small amount of aid that's getting in becomes hotly contested, and so when Israel says Hamas is stealing it and selling it to fund themselves, I'd say the best antidote to that is allowing a lot more aid in, making sure that food and medical supplies are available, more readily available --
JAYES: Yeah, that that's right.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: -- that makes it --
JAYES: -- so they can't sell it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: -- it makes it less-- well, exactly, it makes it, you know, impossible for Hamas then to control the food and other supplies that they are controlling.
JAYES: Yeah, it's about supply and demand.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I don't have any time for Hamas, Laura. None of us, none of us have any time for Hamas. They were brutal on October 8, they have no role in a future government, I don't doubt that they're making the situation worse now, but we can't allow children to starve to death because of that.
JAYES: What do you think's holding Anthony Albanese and your Government back in recognising the State of Palestine, because it feels like we're getting very close. What do you see as the trigger point for want of a better term?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think the Prime Minister's been very clear on this. We've set a number of conditions, we want to make sure that there is no role for Hamas in a future Palestinian State, and we want to make sure that our recognition is more than just a gesture, that actually we do it at the right time in the right way in a way that contributes to peace. We've been very clear on that, the Prime Minister has laid out his conditions, he's done interviews all week about the sort of conditions that we would apply. Because we want genuine progress in the area, we don't just want gesture politics.
JAYES: But do you think, you know, Canada's intervention here, the UK, France, it's not done in the right way at the right time, 'cause what are their --
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: No, not at all.
JAYES: -- circumstances, how are they different from us?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: These are large countries that play a significant role on the international stage. I think a number of countries each laying out their timetable, their conditions, their reasons, does contribute to the international debate and highlights the reason that these countries are recognising the Palestinian State at the moment is because they are desperately concerned about the humanitarian toll of the conflict as it continues.
I do think this all contributes to the international debate which, you know, it's the international community saying what's happening now, it's not good enough, we want to see change, we want to see it immediately.
JAYES: Tanya Plibersek, I had so much more to talk to you about, but we'll leave it there for today, hopefully we can speak again soon.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Thanks, Laura, talk to you soon.
ENDS