THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SUNRISE
MONDAY, 2 JUNE 2025
SUBJECTS: US TARIFFS; US-AUSTRALIA RELATIONSHIP; DEFENCE SPENDING.
NATALIE BARR: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is standing firm against the Trump administration pushing back on tough new steel tariffs after the US President doubled levies on foreign steel and aluminium to 50 per cent. The PM has called it an act of economic self-harm with the hardline approach coming just two weeks before his first face to face meeting with President Trump. For their take, let's bring in Minister for Social Services Tanya Plibersek and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you. So, Tanya, is there any world where Anthony Albanese can convince Donald Trump to give us an exemption?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Well, we know that the Trade Minister and the Prime Minister were very successful in negotiating extra access for Australian goods into China. That's almost $20 billion of extra Australian goods going into China. We'll continue to work very hard to seek an exemption for Australia from these tariffs. But it's also worth remembering that our exports to the United States are a relatively small proportion of our global exports and the people who are really going to be hurt by these additional tariffs are Americans themselves. There's a couple of hundred thousand jobs, fewer in steel manufacturing in the United States, but there are millions of jobs that rely on steel to make things like cars that just became harder and more expensive in the United States. So, part of our argument of course will be this doesn't make any sense for Australia, it doesn't make any sense for the global economy, and it certainly doesn't make sense for the American economy either.
BARR: So, didn't the UK get a deal though?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We're working very hard to secure access for Australian steel manufacturers. We think we've got a very strong case to make. We're very efficient steel makers here in Australia. We do a good job. It's good quality steel and we'd like to see a special arrangement for Australia. But in the meantime, we'll be working on those other markets for Australian goods as well. We've just signed a trade deal with the United Arab Emirates. We're looking very closely at additional opportunities in Southeast Asia, in countries like India. And our Prime Minister himself and our Trade Minister will be very actively pursuing those opportunities.
BARR: Yeah, other markets obviously very important. Barnaby, the Opposition during the campaign said, look, we would be able to do a lot more, you know, we would be able to go to Trump and tell him what's what. So, what would you guys be doing in this situation to get the tariffs off?
BARNABY JOYCE, MEMBER FOR NEW ENGLAND: Well, the first thing I'd say is there's a very interesting interlude there. I don't know whether Tanya knows whether or not the UK got an exemption or whether she does and doesn't want to talk about it. But I can understand that. I can understand that. Quite obviously Kevin Rudd is, look, he's a good guy, but he's just not, he's not kicking a goal in the United States. There's a difference in the relationship between him and the Trump administration. I believe the first thing you've got to do is give Kevin another job somewhere else and change him over. Get an ambassador who actually can work closer with the United States. You can't have the Australian Ambassador unable to make the connections at the highest level of the United States and not sort of at a level, at the highest level.
BARR: So, is he a failure, is he?
JOYCE: I think that he can do better for the United States. I'm not saying he's a bad Ambassador. I'm saying he's not suited for the United States. It's quite apparent that Trump himself and Rudd are just not hitting it off. So, you should, the Prime Minister should be adroit enough so to say, Kevin, you're off to London and someone else is off to the United States. Now there's a very good, there is an exceptional and important change to make very quickly right at the very top level.
BARR: Okay, Tanya, what do you say about that? Should we axe Kevin Rudd from the US and move him on and would we get further with Trump?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Kevin has had an extraordinarily active time as Ambassador. He's got excellent relationships with both Republicans and Democrats. You know that he's hardworking, he's got enormous capacity. He's an excellent Ambassador. And at the end of the day, Australia chooses our ambassadors. We don't allow other countries to choose our ambassadors for us.
BARR: Ok, let's talk –
JOYCE: But they choose whether they want to talk to them or not and that's the problem. You know, they choose whether they want to. You can say we need –
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Barnaby, last time the Prime Minister was in the US he talked to over 100 Congress members. And all of those meetings were organised with Kevin Rudd and he's spoken to the President.
JOYCE: This relationship is not good.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And this is something to be done in a patient way, in a patient, methodical way.
JOYCE: How long do we have to wait, Tanya?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: As you recall, Barnaby, when you were in government, when we didn't have access to a whole lot of, a whole lot of Chinese markets.
BARR: Okay, speaking of China –
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And we've restored that because of patient diplomacy. And that's how we will handle it.
BARR: Let's just talk, let's just finish on defence. Speaking of China, we've got the US saying war in China and Taiwan is imminent. We need to be spending more on defence. We're not spending enough. We've got an analyst saying no one outside of government and in fact many inside this government thinks we are not spending enough on defence, even when it, even when it increases up to 2030. What do you say about that, Tanya? It's pretty scathing remarks from lots of analysts.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we've announced that we'll spend an extra $10 billion just over the next four years and close to $60 billion extra over the decade. And the way we decide how much we'll spend on defence is to decide what we need to keep Australians safe. The equipment we need, the personnel we need, and then that's how much we spend. We don't pick a number out of the air and then work out how we can spend that many dollars. So, we're upgrading our surface fleet, as you know, and modernising our surface fleet. We've got the very large investment in AUKUS and of course we're pursuing additional long-range missiles, including being able to make those missiles here in Australia. When the Coalition were last in government, they made more than $40 billion worth of announcements that were unfunded in the budget. So, as well as describing to Australians what we need to keep us safe and investing in those things, we're actually putting the money on the table to, to invest, to upgrade the equipment that we have.
BARR: Barnaby, this, it's more money, but it's way below what the US says. It brings it up to 2.3 per cent of GDP, I think by 2030. The US says that's not enough. What do you say?
JOYCE: Well, the first thing I say is the Labor Party have been more focused in the war against the weather with net zero than they have been focused on what could really do damage to every section. You would note lately, viewers, that a Chinese flotilla went around Australia and we couldn't even get a naval vessel to track them. We had to hit the New Zealand Navy to track them. We had to get a commercial flight to spot them as they did live fire exercises in the Tasman Sea adjacent to Sydney. So, I think you've got a lot of things to worry about. You've got to become as powerful as possible as quickly as possible. You've got a platform of submarines that at times you can't deploy. You can't deploy most of them. Sometimes you can't deploy any of them. I mean, we just are miles away from where we should be. And at the same time, with the cost of energy, we're losing the capacity for a manufacturing industry to underwrite the strength of Australia. We're actually losing it. What major manufacturer wants to move here? No one.
BARR: Okay, thank you very much. We've got to go. Thank you. We'll see you next week.
ENDS
