THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
SUNRISE
MONDAY 13 OCTOBER 2025

Topics: Nationals chaos; Net Zero.

NATALIE BARR: Let's bring in the man himself, Barnaby Joyce now, as well as Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek. Tanya, we'll let you stay there for a minute. Barnaby, let's talk to you. The rumour mill has been flying in the last three days. If the Nationals dump net-zero, will you stay?

BARNABY JOYCE: This is one of those interviews where I wish Tanya did do all the talking, but anyhow. Look, I think the main thing is I'm saying I'm not going to stand for New England again. What's really important for that is, it's an incredible blessing it has been representing the people of New England and the Upper Hunter. I want to make sure my priorities remain focused on the people who gave me a job, and that is the people of New England and the Upper Hunter.

BARR: Barnaby, we just had an election. Why are you saying you're leaving?

JOYCE: Because, well, because this is the first interview I've done since I've announced that I'm not going to stand again at the next election. I think it's really important that the first thing those people hear is my commitment to them and my thanks for the great honour they've given me. That comes before anything else, actually. And as regards everything else, as I wrote, I do believe that there's been a, there has been a breakdown, the relationship between myself and David and others, and I don't think it's conducive to a harmonious party room for them or, to be honest, for me, and I think that's to say anything else, is to not be telling the truth. Everybody knows, and even you guys in the fourth estate, you know that. And so, I just think it's playing this sort of silly game, the charade of, you know, everything's fine, it's all going well, it wasn't. And the best thing to do there is to move on, which is what I intend to do.

BARR: So, how did this get out? It was a surprise to you on the weekend.

JOYCE: Yeah, it was because I was actually up helping the Nats, helping them raise money, as I generally do, in the, in the middle of [inaudible] the National Party comes out a story that I'm leaving the National Party, which it makes the speech a little awkward, but you got to work your way around it somehow. Anyway, that’s life.

BARR: So, who leaked it?

JOYCE: And you, I don't know. Well, it wasn't me, but that's for certain. And I don't think it's any person who likes me either. It's someone who doesn't want to help me much. And I think that they did an excellent job on that occasion.

BARR: So, David Littleproud has publicly asked you to stay. Is there any way you would?

JOYCE: Look, I just think that it's, I'm not going to be standing for New England or Upper Hunter. Okay. And that gives everybody a long period of time, two and a half years to find a good candidate, and I'll continue to do my work for them. That's, I just think that it's, when people, you know, David mentioned generational change of the last election as the reason he was moving on from me. Generational, if you were my partner and you came home one night and said, look, for reasons of generational change, I don't think this relationship's going well, you'd think that was pretty much it. And if they said, well, we don't want you to go out and campaign anywhere, that's like saying, well, I also don't want you to go to any parties with me or be seen in public with me. You'd probably say, I don't think this relationship is going that well.

BARR: Okay. So, this was because they banned you from going out of your electorate during the last election campaign, too?

JOYCE: No. No. Well, that's. Yep. Not really. It's just a sign, Nat that you're, obviously, the relationship's there, it's broken. You know, that happens. And-

BARR: Okay.

JOYCE: -and you just gotta. You gotta, you gotta deal with that and then deal with it. I don't want to throw, I'm not gonna throw the plates around. That's, that's, I understand that's how the world works, and we all move on.

BARR: Okay. Has Pauline Hanson tapped you on the shoulder to lead One Nation?

JOYCE: No. No. You know what amazes me. I've always been really straight. I spoke to Pauline maybe a month and a half ago, briefly. I actually did ring her last night. I sat on the front seat because I thought sitting there talking about us all, I might as well speak to each other rather than speak through the media. Said g'day. There's nothing. Nothing is locked in. Nothing is you know, and I've gone from, not even from. In a matter of minutes, I've apparently resigned from the Nationals, which I haven't actually done yet. Joined One Nation, which I haven't actually done. And then I'm leading, within a few hours, I'm actually leading One Nation. And then I've even watched on television last night people complaining about my leadership of a party I'm not even a member of. I mean, it's amazing. Let's just take it down a step. I am not, I have not joined One Nation. I have not actually at this point in time, resigned from the Nationals-

BARR: Are you going to?

JOYCE: What join One Nation? Look, and I'm not going to be. I'm not going to be salami sliced. I might, I'm thinking about becoming a compère on Sunrise.

BARR: Right, okay. Okay. Well, Tanya, what can you make of this and what are you hearing?

MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, TANYA PLIBERSEK: Well, Nat, one thing I know for sure is Australians tolerance for politicians and political parties talking about themselves is pretty low. And that's why as a government, we're going to keep focusing on what matters to Australians. That's higher wages, lower taxes, cheaper childcare, Fee-Free TAFE, university debt relief, helping young Australians into a home of their own, making sure that we're defending the nation. And that's what our focus is, and whatever kind of circus is going on in the National Party. I don't have a view on whatever circus is going on in the National Party. That's for them to try and work out.

JOYCE: Well, the one thing I will enjoy is continuing on with my discussions with Tanya. That is, ladies and gentlemen, they're called talking points. Right. They hand them to them and they just read them out and say this.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: As a One Nation Senator is my tip.

BARR: So, Barnaby, are you going to join One Nation? Is this, is this what this is all about? It sounds like it is.

JOYCE: I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be salami sliced. I'm not going to be salami sliced. In or out. I haven't even been home. I haven't spoken to Vikki, haven't spoken to my daughters [inaudible].

BARR: You've spoken to Pauline Hanson, though?

JOYCE: Yeah, of course I spoke to her about. See, I'm always trying to be. Whenever you try to be completely straight with people, they seem to doubt it. I spoke to Pauline about a month and a half ago down in Canberra. Nothing unusual there. And because all of this is out there-

BARR: And what did she say? Come and join?

JOYCE: I actually rang. We just. No, I just. No, I'm not going to go through our conversation. And I spoke to her out of politeness briefly yesterday just outside that building because I thought. I think this is a decent thing to do seeing everybody seems to be talking about us both.

BARR: Okay, you've made it not- you've made no secret that you want the Nationals to drop Net Zero. The, One Nation has doubled support since the election. It sounds like you know, they’re picking up what you’re putting down.

JOYCE: Yeah, look, we got to get out of Net Zero because all the things Tanya just said before are not going to happen if you stay with this mad idea that Mr. Bowen and Mr. Albanese can change the great arc of heaven by themselves with policy from Canberra which is driving people into destitution. Closing down small business, putting the power price through the roof. Putting the cost of living out of control. Actually affecting our capacity to defend our nation. Because all our heavy industry, [inaudible], all going overseas, all closing down. I mean you've got to stop this.

BARR: Okay. So, would Littleproud drop Net Zero to save you, Barnaby?

JOYCE: I don't know. I mean that is out of my pay grade that question. But I'll tell you what. Get out of Net Zero if you want to look after Australia. If you want to drive Australia into the dirt, stay with this ridiculous idea that Mr. Bowen can change the climate. It is insane.

BARR: If Littleproud doesn't do that, the Coalition would have to split, wouldn't it? Because it doesn't sound like Sussan Ley is going to. And we're back where we were at the beginning of the year.

JOYCE: Well that's. Look, at the whole point is we cannot stick with net zero unless you want to hand to your children a vulnerable, poor nation because that's where you're heading. Your power prices went up by more than 25 per cent last year. The industry's leaving. We've got the Chinese, Communist Chinese breathing down our neck and we've lost our we're losing our aluminium industry. Steel industry is on its knees. Plastics industry's gone. Urea industry's gone. Glass industry's gone. Record insolvencies. And the climate has not changed because of the mad, mad, mad idea of Net Zero.

BARR:Do you think One Nation's doing a good job, Barnaby?

JOYCE: I think that, look, I think that everybody in politics does the very best job. Even Tanya, she does the best job for the political side that she's on. You know, and that's so I'm not going to say, you know, every-

BARR: There you go, Tanya.

JOYCE: -your job for your nation is to do the best job you possibly can. That's it.

BARR: Okay. I think we'll leave it there, Tanya. Thank you, Barnaby. We'll see you next week as well.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Great to talk to you.

ENDS