THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
SUNRISE
MONDAY 22 SEPTEMBER 2025

Topics: Formal recognition of the state of Palestine; Optus triple zero outage.

NATALIE BARR: For their take, let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you. Tanya, how does this formal move overnight help to achieve peace in the Middle East?

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: I think Australia joining with Canada, the UK and frankly, most of the rest of the world in saying there needs to be a Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security with an Israeli state, I think that's an important next step. I mean, this is something that has been contemplated for 77 years. We know the situation in the Middle East now is catastrophic. We really want to see hostages returned, we want to see aid able to enter Gaza properly and unrestricted. And of course, we want to see an end to the fighting. And we think working together with our allies around the world to facilitate that is an important contribution that Australia can make. I think the Prime Minister was very clear in his statements on your show just a little earlier. Our whole focus here is to see peace in the Middle East and we believe that this is an important next step to achieving that.

BARR: So, then we've got Netanyahu hitting back and saying there will be no Palestinian state. We've also got US Republicans saying it could invite punitive measures in response. Barnaby, what does the Opposition say?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, Hamas is very happy that the Labor Party recognised a Palestinian state. I don't know how this actually works. Are you going to have an embassy? Who are you inviting around to dinner? Terrorist organisation, that's who runs Gaza. If they have a free and fair election, they, remember they elected Hamas, what happens if they elect them again? You're going to recognise them. You're going to have Hamas people in, you know, in the embassy in Australia. And on a very selfish level, we've got a few problems of our own in the South Pacific with Vanuatu, Solomons, even now Papua New Guinea moving out of treaties because of what Beijing Communist China's up to. And we need to think about our own position. We've still got AUKUS under review, and we seem to have done a jolly good job of really annoying the United States of America when we actually should be trying to get along with them as best as we can. And finally, yes, of course we all want peace, but this is going to have absolutely no effect. I mean, if it is going to have effect, how exactly does the recognition of a Palestinian state that's currently basically run by Hamas, how on earth is that going to bring about peace? What does it do that brings about peace?

BARR: Isn't that a good question, Tanya?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, and there's a good answer, Nat, which is that certainly Australia has said and all of the countries that are recognising Palestinian statehood have said that Hamas has no part in any future Palestinian government. The Palestinian Authority has agreed that and very importantly the Arab-

BARR: And can you guarantee they're gone?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: - League countries, very importantly the Arab League countries also agree that Hamas has no role. They have no support. Not in Australia, not globally, not in the region. The Palestinian [inaudible].

BARR: But can you guarantee they're gone?

JOYCE: [Inaudible] support in Gaza [inaudible] elected in.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Absolutely, this is what the Palestinian Authority and the Arab League countries are determined to achieve. And that is a very important change in the Middle East. There is no support for Hamas. Everybody acknowledges that they are a terrorist organisation.

JOYCE: How does this work? What you demand the Palestinian people don't vote for Hamas? They voted for Hamas. That's the reason Hamas are there. Are you going to say to them that if there's a free and fair election, they acknowledge and vote for Hamas, they can pull out the embassy. It doesn't work.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, it's one of the, it's one of the conditions that the recognition of statehood that Hamas takes no role in any future Palestinian state. It is important that [inaudible]

JOYCE: How do you stop that?

BARR: Yeah. As Barnaby's saying, we know that, and we know what we're saying.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: -countries neighbouring Israel are acknowledging it has a right to exist and that Hamas has no role.

JOYCE: But how are you going to stop them, Tanya?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Those countries in the Middle east they-

JOYCE: Tanya, they do have a role. They are the last elected government of the Gaza Strip.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: -you know, it's been a change for them to acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist-

JOYCE: How are you going to stop them, Tanya?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: -something that Australia has recognised all the way through, of course.

JOYCE: Are you going to pull your embassies out if they do re-elect them? Are you going to pull your embassies out if they do re-elect them?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And it's an important statement from them that they are very clear that there's no role for Hamas in any future Palestinian state.

JOYCE: So, you are going to pull the embassies out if they do elect Hamas again?

BARR: Tanya? What if they back Hamas?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I'm sorry, I've lost contact.

BARR: Okay, look, we'll move on. I just want to get to, I just want to get to Optus, which has been the huge story over the weekend. People tried to call Triple Zero, people lost their lives in at least two states. Barnaby, we’re now seeing that each of five calls of Optus were received in call centres. We don't know whether it was the Philippines or India, and so people were calling the call centres who could get through and warning that Triple Zero was out. What does this say about call centres in Australia? Call centres run by Australian companies, and what should be happening to crack down on them, Barnaby?

JOYCE: Well, this needs to be investigated, and we need to have a report, and we need - because people have died, let’s get this really straight, people have died and this is just not good enough at all. And what we have to say is, what was your process? What was your fallback mechanism? Did you have not have a fallback mechanism? How did this fail? Who designed it? Basically, who's responsible for this? This is part of your licensing agreement. You can't just, you know, fall over on triple zero calls, and people died. And people died. There is nothing funny about this. It is absolutely tragic and someone's answerable for it. And I'm sure on this instance the government will make sure that they're getting some answers.

BARR: Yeah, there's obviously an investigation ongoing. Tanya, should the head of Optus go?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I agree with Barnaby on this. This is as serious as it gets. People only dial Triple Zero at the worst moments of their lives. It is horrifying to think that people died because they couldn't get through to Triple Zero. Of course, it should be investigated and of course the full force of the law should be used against the company if any failings are discovered. But it is as serious as it gets.

BARR: Okay, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much for your time today.

ENDS