E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
CHANNEL SEVEN
MONDAY, 19 OCTOBER 2026
Topics: CREDIT CARD SURCHARGES; GST.
MONIQUE WRIGHT: Let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals leader Matt Canavan. Good morning to you both. Okay, Tanya, we'll start with you. So, your government knew about this for three months. Why was the small business industry only given eight hours notice before the ban came into effect?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Well, the tax office were considering this and the government asked the tax office to go and talk to the banks to see if they could get a better deal on the credit card surcharges that were being charged. But let's just take a step back. Why are we doing this? We're doing this to save businesses money and to save consumers money. We're talking about close to a billion dollars of savings for businesses. So, the same small businesses you're talking about, if they go out and buy stock on the credit card, we want them to pay a smaller credit card surcharge. We want them to get those goods that they're going on to sell, cheaper. We want to save them money. The whole reason we're doing this is to save money for consumers.
WRIGHT: Yeah, I hear that there's a reason behind that. But why not talk to the small businesses who are going to get affected by this? I mean, we're hearing repeatedly from the Assistant Treasurer, Daniel Mulino, that the negotiations were left to the ATO and the big banks. What about talking to the small business owners?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we have been talking to the small business owners and that's exactly why we've extended the time that they can pay their bills.
WRIGHT: They say you didn't. That they were not given enough. Chamber of Commerce is saying that they were only given a few hours notice.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: The reason that we've changed the arrangements is because we listen to business. We listen to business and we've extended the time that they can use the old credit card arrangements that they had previously. But we are all about supporting small business. In the last budget, we put an extra $3.8 billion on the table to support small business. We've seen a strong growth in small businesses. We've seen lower closures than we saw pre-Covid. We're seeing strong growth in small business because of the support that we're giving small business. And when they raised this issue of the credit card surcharge and said we want more time to adapt, we've given more time because we listened.
WRIGHT: Okay, let's go to you now, Matt, on this. Do we need to turn our attention to the banks here rather than the taxpayer or the small business owner. So, we're looking at about $200 million a year. That's kind of pocket change, isn't it for the big banks to absorb?
MATT CANAVAN: Yes. Well, it's going to be a lot easier for the banks to just overcharge on these fees thanks to the government. Can I just. Tanya, I don't know what planet this Labor government is on. I don't think this planet you're on is even in this solar system. I mean you just repeated the absolute lies that somehow this is going to save consumers money. I mean, do you even understand how business works? There's no savings here. The surcharges still get charged. They just can't be passed on to consumers directly. So, of course small businesses are going to raise their prices for everything else. They have to. There's no easy free money pot so they can go in to pay these surcharges now. They can't be added to your bill. I've spoken to cafe owner after cafe owner. Maybe you haven't, Tanya, who are pulling their hair out about this. And they have to raise prices. They're doing that.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I speak to plenty.
CANAVAN: Well you obviously don’t speak to small businesses about these changes. Its easier for the banks.
WRIGHT: Tanya, does it make it less transparent then as Matt's saying? Does it make it less transparent? We don't know what the extra is now that's then just going to be absorbed into a cup of coffee.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: The point is Mon, that those businesses also put things on the credit card. So, they are saving money if they go out. If the coffee shop goes out and buys coffee on the credit card--
CANAVAN: But suppliers are going to increase prices as well. There's no savings here, Tanya. The surcharges are still being charged. Are they or are they not?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: There's a $1.9 billion saving to consumers and almost a billion dollar saving to business.
CANAVAN: No, there is not.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Listen, do you know what, Matt? Have you ever tried to buy something a bit bigger on the credit card? Like you know, a piece of furniture? Have you gone out and bought your couch on the credit card? And how much is the surcharge on something like that? It costs so much more than it costs a bank to provide that service.
WRIGHT: Okay. Matt, can I come back to?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Do you think it's fair? Do you think those big surcharges are fair?
WRIGHT: Matt, do you want to answer that?
CANAVAN: Well, they're still going to be charged, Tanya. If you want to get rid of the surcharges we've got to deal with the banks.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So, you think they're fair.
CANAVAN: The original question is right because--
WRIGHT: So, what is your answer to that question?
CANAVAN: Yes. The surcharges are still being charged, Tanya. They're still being charged.
WRIGHT: So, should big banks absorb it, Matt?
CANAVAN: [Indistinct] more competition.
WRIGHT: Should big banks absorb it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You think the banks should have open slather, charge whatever they want?
CANAVAN: Well, no. Well you, you are, you are giving them that right. Nothing you have changed stops them from charging these surcharges. Tanya, they're still charging them.
WRIGHT: Okay, let's move on.
CANAVAN: Now what I do think is there needs to be much more competition in our financial system. That's clear. Now there's a cost here, there has to be--
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That we can agree on.
CANAVAN: But hiding them behind these changes, not talking to small business now, only giving them a nine month extension is exactly why this economy is going to fall. Because Tanya clearly does not understand how business works. Simple as that.
WRIGHT: Okay, let's talk about the GST now because we want to do this but we're running out of time. There are some calls again this morning. We've heard this, you know, over time for the GST to be increased to 15% per cent with a new report from the Grattan Institute finding that the hike could raise $76 billion per year. Now the Grattan's Chief Executive says that much of that should be spent to cut income taxes and boost welfare payments. Tanya, is that something that you would consider raising the GST to 15 per cent?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well no, we're not considering putting up the cost of everything and our tax cuts for the ordinary person will save about two and a half thousand dollars across five tax cut cuts. We're focused on bringing down taxes but we don't want to push up the price of everything through increasing the GST.
WRIGHT: However, the Grattan Institute is saying that under their plan that lower income families could be left $8,000 better a year. So, you have more carve outs in the GST.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I know what they're proposing is that you raise the GST and you pass that back to families as tax cuts or higher social security. What I know happens when people contemplate increasing the GST is that some people think they're going to get it back as higher social security payments. The states and territories say no, we want that money for hospitals and schools. It's very easy to have multiple ways of spending any increased GST. The impact on families though is they see the shopping basket that they're taking through the supermarket checkout increase in price and we don't want to see that.
WRIGHT: OK Matt, since its introduction in July 2000, the GST has never been increased. Of course we've now got a one, we're in $1 trillion of debt. Is this something that we should consider raising the GST?
CANAVAN: No, because. No, because we've got to control government spending, not take the lazy route of increasing taxes. The problem you've got, though, is you can't believe anything the Labor Party says here. Because at the last election they said they wouldn't raise taxes on capital gains tax. They wouldn't raise taxes on negative gearing, they wouldn't raise taxes on trust. Indeed, the Prime Minister said that 50 times.
WRIGHT: Okay but back to the question.
CANAVAN: You can't trust them. Next time. They could increase the GST next time.
WRIGHT: You wouldn't raise it. That's a no?
CANAVAN: As they did last time.
WRIGHT: Okay, but that's a no?
CANAVAN: We'd scrap all of Labor's taxes as well. We'll bring down taxes.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You'd scrap our tax cuts
CANAVAN: We'll give people an automatic tax cut every year by indexing tax thresholds, too. This government has not--
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You said you'd reverse our tax cuts.
CANAVAN: Tax increases, then. Sorry, Tanya. But, yep, you have not made any tax cuts, so we've reversed the tax increase.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Your policy at the last election was to reverse our tax cuts. You went to the last election saying that you would reverse these tax cuts. You were going to put taxes up at the last election, do you remember that?
CANAVAN: Well, I wasn't leader. I wasn't leader then, Tanya. We weren't elected. You were. And you broke your promise to the Australian people. You broke your promises time and time again. So, now you can't be trusted.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: What's your policy now on our tax cuts?
WRIGHT: All right, we're out of time, but thank you both very much. Good, robust conversation this morning, Tanya and Matt.
ENDS
