E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
CHANNEL 7 SUNRISE
MONDAY, 28 SEPTEMBER 2026
TOPICS: INTEREST RATES; GOVERNMENT SPENDING; RENEWABLE ENERGY
NATALIE BARR: Let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce Good morning to you.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Good morning.
BARR: Tanya. One more rate hike puts that cash rate as high as 2011. It's a long time ago for a lot of people. A second hike would put it on par with the 2008 GFC, the global financial crisis. Is there really light at the end of the tunnel for struggling Aussies?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, nobody wants to see rates go up. We know that that adds to the pressure that families are feeling. So, we're doing our best as a government to make sure that we're helping with cost-of-living pressures in a responsible way. We're doing things like making it cheaper to go and see the doctor, cheaper to buy medicines. But equally we know that there's a lot of pressure around the world and we're seeing those interest rate rises in other countries. The continuing conflict in the Strait of Hormuz between the United States and Iran, all of this is adding to the pressure that's being felt in the global economy. We'll continue to take pressure off in the best and most responsible way.
BARR: Do you think you are, though? Aren't you overspending like the IMF inferred?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: No, not at all. And in fact the basics of the Australian economy are very strong. We're one of only nine countries that has a AAA credit rating from all three major ratings agencies. We've reduced the debt that we were left by the previous government. We've had two budget surpluses. We'll continue to bring down those government costs in a way that's responsible. But at the same time we want to keep helping people. Unemployment is very low. I know that that doesn't automatically make the Reserve Bank happy, but it certainly is good for Australian workers and we've got strong growth. The only country that's growing faster is the United States. So, the fundamentals of the Australian economy are very strong. What we want to do is take those day to day pressures off Australians. We're doing that. I mean, in Barnaby's electorate there's 13 new fully bulk billing clinics and people have saved almost $20 million on their medicines. Like it's the kind of practical help that we are offering.
BARR: So, people should be feeling good. So, with all those stats, people should be feeling good. Well, let's go to Barnaby.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I know that people are feeling pressure.
BARNABY JOYCE: Let's get some more talking points.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I'm not trying to deny that they're feeling pressure. What I'm telling you is we're helping in a practical way. I mean, what Barnaby's proposing with things like his superannuation plan, every economist will tell you, will push up inflation.
BARR: Ok, well let's go to Barnaby. What is your answer? Because people, as Tanya said, that despite, you know, us on a world scale and technically the economy, you know, may be okay on a world scale, people are telling us, I can assure you, they're not feeling good. Barnaby, what would you do?
JOYCE: Well, the lights that they see at the end of the tunnel is the train coming to run them over. Our debt, was- It's never been higher. It's high, it's going higher. It's heading up towards the Medicare level. And of course, as it goes higher, your security goes down. Interest rates become even more under pressure as your credit rating. We hope this doesn't happen. But if you don't get your debt under control, it will fall. How would you deal with it? Where you'd stop your discretionary spending on such things as what you're doing with intermittent power, so called renewable sector, pumping so much money into the economy. There's been a massive expansion in the public service that, that pumps money into the economy. Our inflation rate is the highest of the developed countries. Let's just get that correct. The highest of developed countries. And that's making people poorer. People are definitively poorer than they were a decade ago. When you look at the GDP per person rather than this trick of just trying to stack it up with people from overseas. So, you have to do some major adjustments. The United States, which Tanya brought up is, has an economy growing because they have cheap energy prices cheaper than ours. And even they're struggling now of course with the issues that are happening overseas. We don't deny what's happening overseas at all. But what we do say that it's been exacerbated by bad domestic management in Australia. And don't take our word for it. Just walk down the street and talk to people.
BARR: How would you make people's lives better without spending more money? Because the government is spending more money, according to the International Monetary Fund. How would you do it?
JOYCE: Well, you stop spending more money in such things as your intertmittent power sector. You start getting really ridiculous things that are just driving our economy, economy into the dirt, such as the intermittent power sector, the so-called solar panels and solar panels and wind turbines fixing the economy. Remember it was all going to get better. Power prices were going to be vastly cheaper. It didn't happen, did it? You're going to go back to some of the basic fundamentals of economics, which is, basically your coal fired power, spending power. You gotta make sure---
BARR: Which need a lot of money, Barnaby. They even say it. The coal fired power stations say they're breaking down.
JOYCE: You can't do much better than Snowy Hydro 2.0. Malcolm- I'll say that's Malcolm Turnbull's baby. 40- going to cost $2 billion. Now it's $42 billion. You could have refurbished every power station in Australia with that money, Nat.
BARR: Okay, so that's where you'd start.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Is that what they're going to do though? Is that what Barnaby's going to do? He's going to refurbish every coal fired power station? Like you're a party now that wants to be taken seriously. Is that what you're going to do, Barnaby? How much would that cost?
JOYCE: Well, look at what you're doing. You're destroying the economy and you're keeping it a secret.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It’s a question for you, Barnaby. Renewable energy is bringing electricity prices down. What would you do?
JOYCE: *Inaudible*
BARR: Okay, hang on a second. Barnaby, let's go to you because people want to know and people want to save money. How much would that cost? Are you going to cost that?
JOYCE: Well, when we get what the capacity investment schemes are costing, we can start telling you about the savings. You see the Labor Party keep these in dirty little secret agreements. Capacity investment, Well it's true.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: He doesn't want to tell you, Nat.
JOYCE: How much do they cost?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: He doesn't know.
JOYCE: Well, you don't know, Tanya.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: He says he wants to refurbish every coal fired power station in Australia but he's not going to tell you what that costs.
JOYCE: Because you won't tell us.
BARR: Can you give them the figures so they can cost us?
JOYCE: A question, Tanya. How much does capacity investment schemes cost us?
BARR: Can you get him those figures?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I'll tell you what-
JOYCE: Get us to the next show.
BARR: Hang on, Barnaby. Tanya, can you get in the figures. So, One Nation can cost it so they can tell people how they're going to save money?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I can't even get.
BARR: Yep.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I can't even get a word in with Barnaby shouting at me, Natalie. All of our costings are out there every time we put out budget documents, you can read them for yourself.
BARR: Well Barnaby, why can’t you get them?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And I'll tell you what. Renewable energy has brought down electricity costs in Australia.
BARR: Tanya, they’re not down. They’re up.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Wholesale electricity prices are coming down because of. Wholesale electricity prices are coming down, Nat.
BARR: So, if wholesale is coming down, people don't understand why theirs are going up.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And they're getting three hours of free power on the Eastern seaboard--
BARR: Only if you’re on a default setting, which hardly anyone is in a couple of states, Tanya.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: --and people who've got solar panels on their roofs and a battery--
BARR: It costs a lot and people have to pay out a lot of money to get it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: --those people who've got a battery are now getting their electricity virtually for free.
BARR: And that's great if you can, but there's a lot of people writing to us saying, I can't afford a battery and- or I live in an apartment block and I can't do the solar panels. There's a- There's a lot of people slipping through the cracks.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And hundreds of thousands of them have. Which has made a big difference too. Barnaby's proposal is to do what? It's 600 billion on nuclear. It's going to rebuild coal. Where is that going to happen?
JOYCE: You're going to tell us what the capacity investment scheme is. You are going to tell us at the next show.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I said that you can see--
BARR: Barnaby. She says the figures are there. Can you guys find them?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Honestly, Barnaby--
JOYCE: See, the problem is, Nat, they hide them.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I have said that our investment in electricity is in the budget papers. What's your coal fire power building going to cost?
JOYCE: The next time we’re here, you’re going to tell us what there is. Jim is going to be absolutely furious. Jim is going to be furious with you.
BARR: They're in the budget papers. Can someone open them? Yep.
JOYCE: They're just not. They're not for publication. NFP.
BARR: Tanya said they are, she's the Minister.
JOYCE: Oh, well, we're going to find out, aren't we?
BARR: You guys look and we'll report back next Monday. Thank you very much.
ENDS
