E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
CHANNEL 7 SUNRISE
MONDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 2026
Topics: SUPERANNUATION; Cost of living.
NATALIE BARR: Well thousands of dollars back in your pocket every year, but it will cost your superannuation. It's One Nation's big plan to give a quarter of compulsory super contributions back to Aussies with mortgages or rent to help with the cost‑of‑living. The plan would give the average couple about $4,300 a year back, or around 82 bucks a week. The exemption would last for three years. That's the plan. For more let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce. Morning to you, Barnaby.
BARNABY JOYCE: Morning.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Good morning.
BARR: So a Treasury report in 2018 warned that dipping into super early should only be a last resort. So you're going against that plan. Tell us why you think that's important now.
JOYCE: Well what we're seeing in the cost‑of‑living crisis, we say one of the worst things that could happen in regard to your future security is if you are without a house, the house that you own, or you're forced out of your house. Now I acknowledge there is a process through your superannuation fund in circumstances of extreme privation, is that you can make that application. It's incredibly convoluted, but however we've had the record number of those, and that means so many people have been under stress, but when you get the money out you're taxed at between 17 and 22 per cent. So the Government's belief is, "You're in trouble, we're going to take a fifth of the money off you". Now what this does is says to people from this point forwards we're not affecting your current balance, that obviously if you're doing tough and you're going to lose your house or be kicked out on the street, and that will cause you massive problems, massive problems in your quality of life and your capacity to hold down a job and capacity to get super, well, you can make the application to the super fund. You'll still be paying paid your 12 per cent but make the application to the super fund for that money or part thereof to come back to you so that you can get through these hard times.
BARR: Okay, so what would the stipulation be?
JOYCE: The stipulation, well the stipulation is just that if you are in --
BARR: Doing it tough?
JOYCE: You're doing it tough. Most people as you know, Nat, they're not going to take money out if they're not doing it tough. But if they need the money, they say, "I can't get through", they're going to ask for it.
BARR: Okay. Tanya, what do you think about that? A lot of families doing it tough, should they be able to take some of their super out?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well it's obvious that One Nation wants you to raid your super instead of getting a pay increase. We support higher wages and better super when you retire. We've seen minimum wages increase by more than $12,000 since we came to government. We've had five tax cuts because we want you to earn more and keep more of what you earn and we support higher superannuation. We know that if you raid your super now you'll be thousands of dollars worse off in retirement. We want people to retire with dignity. And One Nation has opposed same job same pay. Pauline Hanson's been out there saying Australian workers are lazy and they should be easier to sack, and they haven't backed those increases to the minimum wage that have seen the minimum wage rise by more than $12,000 since we came to government.
BARR: Barnaby, it's a lot of money that you would lose. Do you have to spell out to people that if you took $6,900 a person over the three years out of your super now, in your mid‑20s that translates to about 80 grand when you're in your 60s, 50 grand, 40 or 50 grand if you take it out in your mid‑30s. If you take it out in mid‑40s, it's 25 grand. It ends up being a lot of money that you'll lose down the track, so would you spell it out to people?
JOYCE: I think people are competent enough to work that out for themselves, and if people make that decision. People aren't stupid. We give them credit for more than brains than the Labor Party does. And if they say, "Well if I lose my house now, I'm going to be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars out", if we use the past as an example. I know the Labor Party created a housing crash crisis at the moment but let's presume that that turns around at some stage. And also what we've seen in the Labor Party is their solution is, "Oh, we'll give you a cost‑of‑living measure" and then they just come out and change the capital gains tax. Lie, and change the tax to find the money to pay you your own money back. This is giving you your own money. What we worry about with the Labor Party, they talk about the national asset, which is the super. It ain't no national asset, Nat. It's your own money; it's your own money.
BARR: And you're saying that that 2,000‑odd a year will help people save their houses?
JOYCE: Well if it's now, if someone doesn't have a house, they can't pay their rent, you'll probably find that they probably can't pay for a job either. And if they get kicked out of their house and lose their house, gosh, that is the most vital asset for you to have when you retire is your house.
BARR: Tanya, a lot of people ‑‑
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So Nat, but that can already happen, right. 68,000 people did that in the last year we've got numbers for. That can already happen.
BARR: But cost‑of‑living pressures, Tanya ‑‑
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So what Barnaby's really saying ‑‑
JOYCE: Hang on.
BARR: Hang on, Barnaby, I'll just get Tanya to respond.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Of course there are cost‑of‑living pressures, that's why we are the only ‑‑
BARR: Yes, Tanya.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, there are cost‑of‑living pressures, that's why we back higher wages. One Nation opposed higher wages. Same job same pay, tens of thousands of dollars difference for two workers ‑‑
BARR: Yeah, but Tanya, can I ‑‑
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑‑ doing the same job, wearing the same uniform in the same place, One Nation opposed that.
BARR: Okay.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Pauline Hanson has said herself that young workers should be easier to sack because they're lazy.
JOYCE: That's got nothing to do with [indistinct].
BARR: We're talking about the super.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: They pretend to be in favour --
JOYCE: We're talking about the super.
BARR: But the reasons --
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑- of Australian workers, they're not.
BARR: Just on super, the reasons that you can access your super now from my understanding is severe financial hardship, terminal medical conditions, permanent/temporary incapacity, if you leave Australia permanently or specific tax issues. Are you saying that people can access their super if they're in financial hardship now?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: They have to prove that they're in hardship. I don't know what sort of proof Barnaby is suggesting. Do they just say that they're experiencing hardship or do they have to demonstrate that they're at risk of losing their home?
JOYCE: Well can I just --
BARR: Can they do that now?
JOYCE: Well what the process is now --
BARR: Yes.
JOYCE: -- is they have to ‑ the superannuation fund, you've got two lots. Now first of all, Tanya herself has just said, "Oh, if you're in hardship you can get it, but we don't want you to get it if you're in hardship", which is a conjecture that --
BARR: That's why I'm asking --
JOYCE: It's a riddle.
BARR: If have you a specific tax bill you can.
JOYCE: It's a riddle I can't get my head around but somebody out there in the land watching this can. What we're saying, we're going to streamline that process, so if you're in hardship, 'cause we know people are, in fact it's been a record number of people who have got it, but the problem is, Nat, is the Labor Party taxes them between 17 and 22 per cent to take the money out.
BARR: Okay. So and you're reducing it to what?
JOYCE: Zero. I mean ‑‑
BARR: Okay. Tanya, is that what ‑ okay, you're saying you can access it if you're in hardship, Tanya, and Barnaby's saying the tax is too high. Would you consider reducing it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well that's a question for the Treasurer, but the point is Barnaby's saying you can't access it and at the same time he's saying you can access it, so you can access it. 68,000 people did.
JOYCE: No, no, no, Tanya, no, Tanya, I --
BARR: Well that's a good question. Just finally --
JOYCE: I just absolutely said you can access it but it's so convoluted because --
BARR: It's convoluted and the tax is too high.
JOYCE: Yes, and you see that the union funds run the super funds and they get really tight about it.
BARR: Yes.
JOYCE: And they believe it's their money, but we believe it's the people's money.
BARR: Okay, another issue. Okay, so we need to check can you access your super now.
JOYCE: You can.
BARR: Under hardship.
JOYCE: Under -- but it's extremely convoluted.
BARR: Extremely -- okay, it's difficult, you can access and --
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You can.
BARR: And also can you do it without a 17 per cent tax. You're saying you --
JOYCE: It's 17 to 22, not 7 to 10.
BARR: And you're saying you'd do it with no tax.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well --
JOYCE: It'd be like -- it'd be exactly the same proposition as if you took it out in your retirement.
BARR: Right. Thank you. And last word, Tanya.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, the reason that you pay tax on it is because superannuation has really favourable tax treatment. You get all sorts of concessions for your superannuation.
JOYCE: Here we go.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: If you're using it as your normal wages --
BARR: Yeah, okay.
JOYCE: So if you get ‑ your [indistinct] hardship.
BARR: Hang on, Barnaby.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑‑ it gets taxed as normal wages.
BARR: Hang on, Barnaby. Yeah, okay.
JOYCE: It's tax on the [indistinct].
BARR: You're saying it's already low, you're saying you would bring it down zero.
JOYCE: It's taxed, it's taxed on the way in.
BARR: I think we've got both sides of that.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, so you're taxed at your normal --
JOYCE: It's taxed on the way in, Tanya.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: -- rate.
JOYCE: It's taxed on the way in, Tanya.
BARR: Yep, okay. Okay, thank you. I think we've both had our say, thank you very much. We'll see you next week.
ENDS
