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NATALIE BARR: For more, let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you. Barnaby, we'll start with you. Is your boss suggesting that any immigration issues we may have started after we scrapped the White Australia policy?
BARNABY JOYCE: I think what you're saying is the logical chain of events. We don't support the White Australian policy [inaudible].
BARR: Sorry, we've just got an audio issue. Barnaby, we'll just sort that out. Tanya, you would have heard these comments over the last few days. What is your response to what Pauline has said?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Well, I watched that Spotlight interview last night. She very clearly said that the problem started after we got rid of the White Australia policy and she also backed in mass deportation and said that all of her members of Parliament support her in that call for mass deportation. I think it's extraordinary that whenever she gets challenged on what she's actually said that we've all seen and we've all heard, she says "no, no, never said it". You know, for 10 years she's been criticising paid parental leave and now she pretends she supports it. She's actually on the record saying that Australian workers are lazy, they should be easier to sack and they should be paid less. But she tries to portray herself as a friend of the Aussie battler. She's voted against tax cuts and pay increases and making jobs safer. But she says that she's for, you know, better pay and conditions and more certainty for people. Like this is a woman who will say anything and then when it is challenged, she wants to stick her head in the sand and pretend she never said it. It's like watching a toddler do something wrong in front of you and then turn around to you and say, ‘no, no, never did it, wasn't me’. I think that interview last night was very telling. She's palling around with convicted criminals, she's trashing Australia overseas, trashing Australia overseas, and then she's saying she's all for White Australia and for mass deportations and today apparently she's not. I mean, go figure.
BARR: Barnaby, what part of that is wrong?
JOYCE: I don't know because it's just seemed to go on for a long while. But what I would say is we, we don't support the White Australia policy. Let's get that completely clear. Let's go back to the start. What we see is a chain of events. It's a statement of fact that and Pauline herself said that at the start, it started from Holt, actually the wind down of the White Australia policy and a very good thing. And at the start there was really no issues with it. But over time we got a section of people who didn't want to really assimilate with Australia, didn't work within the guardrails of Australia. And therefore we started moving away from Australian culture to having to encompass a whole range of views, some of which just don't, are just not conducive to an egalitarian, easygoing society which you, I and Tanya wish to live within. Now, that is the Australian culture. That is the culture we want to live within. Now, as far as, you know, I don't know, some sort of diatribe about other things that's stuck to the back of that. Let's put that aside. Let's put that aside. What we have is a clear understanding of what is happening in England. And what is happening in England is you're getting a social fissure and it's no good. What we are seeing there is quite obviously the evolvement of a culture that you can't say is a representation of what we would presume would be English culture. And if this is, as this grows and now we have movements to make sure that people speak English in council, in councils. That's surprising. And what we got is a clarion call that we don't want to go down that path. That's not what we want to end up. That is not going to work in Australia. It's not something we need. Not something we want. We need people to come to our nation and work within the Australian guardrails.
BARR: Okay, Barnaby, on the mass deportations. She says she likes the idea of mass deportations. Do you support that? Who do you want--
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: She said she loved the idea.
BARR: She loves the idea. You're right. They were her words. What do you support that, Barnaby? And who do you want to deport?
JOYCE: Illegal immigrants. That's why they're illegal.
BARR: Sow would you do that? There are about, I think, 70 to 75,000, as I understand it, people who are undocumented or don't have the right paperwork in this country at the moment. How would you do that?
JOYCE: First of all, that's a very good question to ask the Labor Party why there's so many people who are illegal immigrants, that's why we call them illegal immigrants. They're immigrants. They're not legally supposed to be here.
BARR: So, just first of all, Barnaby, what would you do?
JOYCE: Well, as it becomes apparent that they're not supposed to be here, they'll be put on a plane and sent back to where they're supposed to be. What's the point of calling them illegal immigrants if you believe they're legal? What's the point of having an immigration policy if you're just going to let anybody in whether they're legal or not?
BARR: Because many have been here many, many years. So, Tanya, is it--
JOYCE: Well, then it's just like saying, you know, I was involved in a crime years and years ago, therefore it's now to be forgotten. If you're illegal, you're illegal.
BARR: Okay, Tanya, what's your response to that?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Actually, Nat, literally everybody agrees with that. If you hear illegally, you should be deported, no questions asked. Barnaby was the Deputy Prime Minister. There were people who were here illegally when he was Deputy Prime Minister. What did he do about that then?
BARR: Yeah. So, tens of thousands. Barnaby, how do we find them? Is there a problem for finding these people?
JOYCE: I'm glad we got onto the main topic. We should, illegal immigrants should be removed. If we--
BARR: But how do we find them? What's the problem here?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: They should be. We all agree.
JOYCE: We have an imperfect system.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I mean, this is the ridiculous. This is the ridiculous thing about [inaudible]--
JOYCE: [inaudible]
BARR: Tanya, let's go back to you, you're the government at the moment. How do we--
JOYCE: Of course they should be removed. We've got to make sure as people present themselves for medical issues or other things, they're removed from the country. I mean, obviously you're going to come across them from time to time. They should be removed.
BARR: Okay. I think there were like 50,000 when, you know, tens of thousands when you were in government, too. So, it's obviously a difficult issue. Tanya, you are the government of the day. How do you find these people?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, absolutely, Nat. As soon as we find them, and when we find them, we should deport them straight away. And that's what we're doing. And we've actually decreased immigration by 45 per cent. Barnaby recently voted against a cap on overseas student numbers. Like, they say one thing and they do another. That's the problem here.
BARR: But besides them Tanya –
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You're asking reasonable questions that Barnaby can't answer. And Pauline said that all of her MPs supported her when she said she supports mass deportation. What does that look like?
BARR: Okay --
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: There's 17,000 people who live in Barnaby's electorate who've got both parents born overseas. Are we deporting them as well?
JOYCE: I don't know. You seem very excited, Tanya. I know the polling's not great for you, and I suppose that's something you've got to work on. But the thing is, if you're illegal you're illegal. It's really simple. If you had both parents born overseas and you --
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We agree.
BARR: Okay, so you both agree to see, does there need to be --
JOYCE: --and there is not the issue. So, why do you say things? Why do you bring things in like that? It just sounds like you’re very [inaudible] on this.
BARR: So, Tanya Pauline Hanson is right. Do we need some sort of concerted campaign to get rid of the illegals?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We are absolutely focused on removing people when we find them. And we'll continue to do that. We'll continue to do that because everybody agrees when people are illegal, they should be removed as quickly as possible. Everybody agrees with that. And that's not what Pauline Hanson was saying last night on the TV. She was saying all went wrong--
JOYCE: [Inaudible] thank you very much. The Labor Party has joined One Nation. It used to be just the Liberal Party, but now it's the Labor Party as well. Great.
BARR: Okay. It seems like you're both agreeing and the government is working on that. Yes. Tanya, last word.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I certainly don't agree with Barnaby. I certainly don't agree with Barnaby because Pauline Hanson says that One Nation supports the White Australia policy and mass deportation. I'll tell you what it takes to be a good Australian--
JOYCE: [Inaudible]
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: But you heard her, Nat. Like this is the problem. She also says she doesn't support paid parental leave.
JOYCE: She doesn't believe in the White Australia police [inaudible].
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: She said it last night on the TV, Barnaby.
JOYCE: You're just bringing in this stuff in so we can't debate the issue.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: She said it all started going wrong when we got rid of it. And she says she still stands by saying that we're in danger of being swamped by asians.
JOYCE: [Inaudible] she actually said after they got rid of it, things worked out all right and then progressed over time.
BARR: So, you think she said when, when the white Australia policy ended and Italians and Germans and the Polish came in, they were integrated. They learned English. And then afterwards, I think she said that we've got a problem. That's how, you know. Those were her words.
JOYCE: That's exactly [inaudible].
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Okay. I think that's not what she said, Nat. And she also said she loved mass deportation.
JOYCE: You're wrong.
BARR: Of the illegal immigrants. We've got to go because we've got to get to the news. Thank you very much.
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